Talk:Urien Kendells
Citations This article could really use some citations. First, how do you know for sure that portrait is Arl Urien? Is there an examinable portrait somewhere with a subtitle that identifies him as the Arl? It could also use a citation for Duncan's comment about Arl Urien, as well as whomever it is that makes the remark about Urien himself being a decent man. I don't remember him ever being mentioned beyond name and title. The part about the rumors section could also use a clean up. Since it isn't made clear if Vaughan hired the Antivan Crows before the events of the city elf origin. He could just as easily have hired them before being killed by the City Elf Warden and the hit was carried out after Ostagar, with Vaughan already dead and unable to profit from it. It's also spelt Kendells not Kendalls. -HD3 (talk) 05:16, July 18, 2013 (UTC) ::These are great changes! Thank you for going over it. I had added what I could recall at the time and intended to come back and flesh it out. Thanks for your attention to the page. I used the portrait image as Vaughan turns to look at it when referring to his father in the City Elf Origin, indicating it is intended to be represent him. I added a note about that on the page just in case. ::I also added a cite for Duncan's comments on Urien being decent and no friend to the Wardens. I tried to clarify the rumor portion as best I could. As you mention it is unclear specifically when the deal was made with the Crows, but it can at least be determined that it was made prior to Ostagar if not prior to the CE origin. I added a note about that as well. Hopefully this helps a bit to clarify the page..? Thanks for your attention on this, and the spellchecking, HD3 :)--WardenWade (talk) 11:40, July 18, 2013 (UTC) I think we can safely say since the rumor occurs regardless of whether the player does the city elf origin and whether or not they kill Vaughan that the alleged contract must have been made before the city elf origin begins. It would be worth checking the exact wording Bodahn uses when discussing the rumor as to whether Urien allegedly never made it to Ostagar or survived and was killed afterwards. I can't remember if it's "Urien didn't die at Ostagar" or "Urien didn't make it to Ostagar".-HD3 (talk) 12:06, July 18, 2013 (UTC) :That makes sense regarding the rumor. I think I have screenshots of most, if not all, Bodhan's rumor conversations and will look through them tonight for the wording. I can also upload the screenshot that I culled the portrait image from if that will help bolster its being Urien himself? I could add it to a gallery on the page tonight if preferable. I appreciate your hard work on this page; I had had a chance to get the bones down last night and hadn't yet been able to flesh it out more as intended, and this helps a lot.--WardenWade (talk) 16:50, July 18, 2013 (UTC) :To be honest i don't think we even need the image of Vaughan regarding the portrait and it makes the page look cluttered. If we could double check the wording of the rumor Bodahn quotes at the party camp though then we'd know the best way to phrase the section about the rumor in the article. It might be worth reconsidering the see also section about the Estate. I mean i know it's probably Urien who owns the estate at the time but it might not be and unless we can confirm it, we should probably scrap it.-HD3 (talk) 11:43, July 19, 2013 (UTC) ::That sounds fine about the image, I can get that taken out tonight. Regarding the rumor I did check back through my screenshots and found Bodhan's comments on it. I quoted the salient part of the rumor you had been looking for on the page, and can add the full text if that seems preferable. ::Regarding the Arl's Estate codex, Vaughan makes a cameo in Leliana's Song (the source of the codex entry) through overheard dialogue. It seemed to me a safe guess that Urien would have been Arl at the time if his son were there as well. Does that sounds like sufficient confirmation to you as well to keep this entry? Thanks, HD3! :)--WardenWade (talk) 12:02, July 19, 2013 (UTC) ::Oh right i forgot about Vaughan. What's the full text of the rumor bodahn mentioned? Can you just quote it on the talk page?-HD3 (talk) 12:31, July 19, 2013 (UTC) :::I'll be glad to :) I'm away from my computer right now where I have the screenshot saved, but I'll post it up here tonight. Thanks!--WardenWade (talk) 13:33, July 19, 2013 (UTC) ::::Here is the text of the rumor, HD3: "Arl Urien wasn't truly killed at Ostagar. His son, Lord Vaughan, hired Antivan Crows to kill his father before he ever reached the battlefield only to first be killed by a mob of elves himself. That's what I've heard on the road, anyhow. Take it for what it is."--WardenWade (talk) 20:55, July 19, 2013 (UTC) I've removed the supposed portrait of Arl Urien as it seems speculative to me (and thus goes against wiki policy for articles). It looks to be one of the generic portraits scattered throughout the game and I don't think Vaughan looking at it is a clear enough indication of the subject's identity. 16:10, July 19, 2013 (UTC) :If the image is too speculative that's fine :) Thanks for checking on it, King Cousland.--WardenWade (talk) 20:55, July 19, 2013 (UTC)